Sunday, November 21, 2010

2000 Point List: Thoughts and Revisions


So having played three games against three very different armies with my current Chaos list, its time to take a closer look at how the list functions and where it fails.

HQ – One lash sorc sucks. Either I need to go two or drop the one altogether. True, lash in great when it works, but against the 50% of lists that have some kind of psychic defense, it is simply a point sink. Truthfully, I don’t know why everyone freaks out against Lash. As for Kharn, he’s alrightish. Sure he’s a beast in H2H and can dish some pain, but he cries like a school girl when anyone swings back. With his cost and damage output, you’re tempted to have him charge of of his unit, but with T4, 3 wounds and a 5+ invul he basically kills what he touches, and then stands in the air waiting to be gunned down in the enemy’s next shooting phase. Without Eternal Warrior, that can mean one well-placed melta shot.

Elites – The Chosen generally get massacred every game, but that’s kinda what they are supposed to do. Can’t say Dreds or Termies would have done better, the former being too unpredictable, and latter being one shot (combi) wonders. I think the key to these guys is if you are going to infiltrate them on foot you need to make sure there are rhinos moving into position right behind them to push into the opponent’s next turn and press the advantage. Otherwise, their sacrifice is in vain, and an opponent who understands fire discipline will simply take them out turn one and move on to the next threat turn two.

Troops – Blastmater marines are alright as long as their rhino doesn’t move, which is kind of a big caveat. Having only played variant scenarios thus far, I suspect they’d fair better in a straight objective fight. Like all things Slaanesh in this codex they are a bit schizoid – they can’t decide whether they want to be shooty or assualty, and end up not being good at either.

Speaking of assaulty, its strange that the berskers are not actually truly good at combat, they only pretend to be. Sure they can slaughter things like Eldar and Tau, but that’s not much of a claim to fame is it? Without power weapons, most of the impressive amounts of wounds they dish just get nerfed by saves, and without FNP or invaluable saves, they aren’t hard to bring down. Plus, as the game against the Necrons demonstrated, when pitted against something with high toughness which can actually fight back they get creamed. Oh, and no ranged anti-tank, so whatever they are fighting, needs to be already sitting nice and in the open for them. Why do people fear these things? Right now I’m of the mind to drop them altogether, as they don’t mesh well with the rest of the army. They aren’t good enough to go off playing death star, and they are too expensive to be a speed bump. I’m thinking two units of CSM with special weapons can be decent speed bumps and offer a few anti-tank shots as well before they get snuffed out. All the better that they can hide in a Rhino while doing it.

Heavies – my Predators are astoundingly average. The AV13 in the front is a big help, but the main reason they survive, I suspect, is that with only throwing out 2 S7 and 1 S9 shot a turn, and they simply aren’t doing enough damage to be a priority for most opponents. While I’d much prefer the flexibility of oblits, in a mech list like this I think they would get zapped too quickly.

The Landraider was a giant failbot, but I pretty much expected it to be, and really only took it because I could not afford ($) an additional predator and rhino at the time of play. While it is mildly survivable, and the 18” assualt threat range is nice, at the end of the day it takes a heavy slot (and an expensive one at that) and in return is putting out one measly S9 shot. And that’s if you don’t move more than 6”. Suck, suck, suck.

Big Picture - So in general, between well placed smoke launchers and simply large amounts of vehicles, the list can soak a fair amount of fire power, but has problems in the dishing out department. The LR-Kharn-Serker combo is a huge point sink which is not only out of sync with the rest of the list, but occupies a heavy slot with little ‘heavy’ in return. Noise Marines with a blastmasters in rhinos are okay, but they need to be stationary for most of the game in order to actually add a useful amount of fire to the mix. At mid range they dump out a S8 AP3 blast, a S5 AP4 blast with re-roll, and 4 S4 shots – not bad, but not exactly razorback good either.

The Chosen offer nice tactical flexibility and help channel enemy deployment – if somewhat lacking in survival department. Here I need to support them with rhinos moving up or a good fast choice or two. Since CSM have… well they don’t have good fast attack outside of bikes, I think that means rhinos.

HQs are another big fail in the list. Here I think either redundancy and flexibility is needed. This almost certainly means either daemon princes or warptime sorcerers. Personally, I’m leaning toward the former, as even if their warptime gets shut down, they can still swipe down MEQs and rip open light tanks.

So with all of this in mind, here’s a first draft re-write:


Daemon Prince w/ MoS, Warptime, wings (160)

5 Chosen w/ meltagun x 2, flamer x 2
Rhino w/ havoc (170)
5 Chosen w/ meltagun x 2, flamer x 2
Rhino w/ havoc (170)
5 Chosen w/ meltagun x 2, flamer x 2 (120)

5 Noise Marines w/ blastmaster
Rhino /w havoc (190)
5 Noise Marines w/ blastmaster
Rhino /w havoc (190)
5 Noise Marines w/ blastmaster
Rhino /w havoc (190)

10 CSM w/ plasma gun, autocannon
Rhino (215)
10 CSM w/ plasma gun, autocannon
Rhino (215)

Chaos Predator w/TL autocannon, lascannon sponson (130)
Chaos Predator w/TL autocannon, lascannon sponson (130)
Chaos Predator w/TL autocannon, lascannon sponson (130)

TOTAL 2000

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